AP When a painting gels, it seems like it is much more
than just getting it
to "work." In a funny way it seems like it is put to
rest on the one
hand and set it motion on the other. That point when everything
comes
together and the fusion sets in and it jumps into a kind of hyperspace,
that whoosh, and the whole thing becomes so much more than the
sum of
its parts that it is almost an understatement. At that point
it is as though
the work is out of our hands, and in that funny way, ready to
go, like a
child that grows up. I find that I like it when this maturation
comes in
the natural process of painting; however I also enjoy the challenge
of
finding that certain something which propels the work to that
other level. The hardest ones are those that are so close and
could be really great but the next
second crash and disappear forever. Does this happen to you?
Those
paintings that come along and promise so much and never deliver?
What
happens there? I get tight, I guess. Pitching a no hitter into
the ninth
and then losing my focus and blowing it because the promise was
too
great. I would have to say t
hat most of my "best" paintings
never made
it. What about those last few moments? How do you treat a painting
at
that point? What sort of factors come into play? What does it
depend on,hang on, how do we know?
MMWow!Where to begin.How a painting occurs and how it
at its best can
correspond to some truth,not absolute,just an exhilarating correspondence
between it and some unknown part of yourself.I know the "dropping
the ball"
sensation to keep with your sports metaphors or striking out
as you put it
in the ninth.Someone said that the beauty of baseball is that
300% in
batting is damn good and as such corresponds to life.So the implication
is
that you have a lot of failures for the few successes you have.I
was
thinking that today in my studio that the last two days of new
color,return
to brushes,lots juicy paint might not gel; I thought of the waste,but
recalled something from Robert Frost that waste is part of the
game.Something about butterflies destroying themselves as they
gorge
themselves on milkweed nectar.All the little sperm that don't
make it.
But I know
also what you say about just feeling right about it doesn't mean
the painting works. Often I get sort of bogus recognitions in
my work;for
example I'll see some contemporary philosophical principle at
work."How
post modern of me""This is so intersubjective"I
can rest assured that the
next day I'll wince at what I've done.The best work either is
pushed over
the long term step by step piece by piece to a point where the
whole goes
beyond the parts.(That is I sweat over the interrelationship
of the
parts,back and forth,and may find by chance that the parts begin
to resonate
unawares in a way that I may
never have intended)(is this the
hyperspace you
are talking about) or having just discovered some new realm I
can knock off
a series of images within that mode for a few weeks..Until its
novelty wears
off(obviously the new mental configuration is initially pleasurable)then
some new problem presents itself or the painting wants to be
more.
I think that
what I want most is the painting to be a presence that people
will keep coming back to.I said something to that effect in response
to
Richard Tuttle's NYT interview.He said it was an American phenomena
this
need to create an intense personal presence.Not to clobber the
viewer but to
grab them maybe but give them so much complexity they can't let
go.Bringing
complexity into our visual space.He said it should not be fast
like signage
or ads.But I think at some level it should be fast and then slow.
I think most
people are very clever,clever to a fault.They've got their back
covered, they never let down their guard.I think I am easily
mesmerized by
the surface of things,the beauty of light,the candy in the store
window.And
I get burned,taken advantage of,while you are dazzled by the
candy,someone
is picking your pocket.Now in day to day life which is made up
of
deals,negotiations over territory,what's yours and mine I suppose
one had
best not be too naive.But in art I think it is an advantage to
be
susceptible,to be open,to lose boundaries.This "promesse
du bonheur" thing I
was talking about. It gets you into new territory like the promise
of fertile
and rich frontier lands for the pioneer.
APWhat about clarity of purpose, intensity, conviction?
For better or worse,
is obsession a must for the artist?
MMThose are the things you hear about as a student.At
least I did at Yale.If
you say that you are an artist than you must act like one.You
got to do
art,obviously to be an artist.I was that way especially in the
beginning.It
was all or nothing.Every day every event had to confirm this
self image.I
wasn't much fun and the girlfriend I had at that time bore the
brunt of my
obsessive nature.Self narrowly defined constantly needing to
have the
definition mirrored back.It is a trap.I was definitely an insufferable
type.I see things differently now.Focus, clarity in art is a
mode I can
shift into.When I am there in the studio,I am totally there.I
let go of it
all when I am out of the studio.There is so much else that makes
you an
artist,like being an engaged human being,involved with others
and influenced
by one's surroundings.Eric Bogosian has a new great monologue
which includes
a bit on the narcissistic actor who seeks a reflection of his
fame at every
moment of the day; for relaxation at night he watches himself
on TV.You
aren't real unless you are getting that reflection. It is the
danger of
teaching.A built in cast of fans.
Teachers
are like football coaches.I heard the pep talks,from my parents
too.Self immolation is the only way to get that recognition.All
or
nothing,your whole life has to be in it.But you know if there
is nothing
else feeding you,then you dry up.You end up imposing a very narrow
definition
of self that boxes you in.I like to be surprised to see how I
can
spontaneously be redefined by my work. The "lived life"
contradicts the
image you had grown accustomed to. It crops up in my paintings.
AP How did you get going as an artist?
MM As usual you ask some tough questions.My
experience in the art world is that
people just don't talk about the life,the struggle etc.I think
that a lot of
people I have worked with in academia over the years are happy
to have a job
in the arts and their art is just a kind of passport to that
world.If there
is a struggle it may be that there is a part of that world that
is closed to
them.A gallery,NYC,critical acclaim etc.But the struggle with
the work,the
split between what is and what you want never comes up.I don't
hear that
very often.Except from you.I remember once helping to organize
a symposium
at the Art Institute for a group of narrative painters.They showed
their work
and then talked about it.The essence of what they said was a
long whine
about rejection,not getting from the art world what they thought
they
deserved.All of that is real ,no denying,but someone asked what
about the
work,the joy the pain,the vision,the hope. Well your questions
get to the
core of it all to that inner debate and struggle that keeps us
moving and
creating.
I'm just
an ordinary guy.I enjoy the different kinds of
weather,landscape.(Sounds like I'm putting together an ad for
men seeking
woman)I get lost in my senses very easily.They are like clothing,
a a garb
that we cloak ourselves in.They define us.Until something catastrophic
happens.The cloak is rent.This oscillation gets me going.
AP What do you credit for your love of
art, and what lead you to
dedicate your life to it?
MM As for
dedicating my life to it:The seeing just happens unless you shut
you eyes.And all that seeing,the whole environment,other art,the
people in it has to
be digested.I really often suffer from a sort of visual indigestion.It
can only get processed through art.I remember having a clear
sense of this at the end of High School>I had dedicated myself
to academics quite successfully,beginning to master the world
of words and their meaning when I became quite lethargic as though
there were 18 years of images that had to get processed.At that
point I was doomed to be an artist or else go crazy with this
excess of visual stuff inside of me.And so it continues to this
day.And a love
of the language,like someone can love words. I
like the underlying structure that keeps rising to the surface
when I paint.
AP What do you think the kind of work you do has to offer
the art community at large?
MM Thank god for other artists.Who else
can truly the enjoy the games I play and the risks I take with
the tradition.
AP A lot of people think that twentieth
century art will end up on the
trash heap, if it hasn't already. What contributions do you think
will
last and why?
MM The severed Ear show I think established
an interesting connection between pure abstraction a la Polk
Smith and a more lyrical approach embodied in Joan Snyder for
example. Abstraction was moving away from a scientific,reductive
trope to becoming something like abstract letters that when combined
into words can begin to open up the world of life and emotions.It
moves out of a self reflexive mode into a life world of meaning.It
is just beginning.I feel that I am part of it.
AP How does being an art educator affect you as an artist?
What about
your recent experiences?(optional)
MM Just as my life as an artist is based
on all sorts of assumptions,so was my teaching.Not everybody
wants to buy into them.I tend to think that
as a person I am quite transparent: What I am should be clear
to others.In fact So much is lost in translation. WE should all
have spin doctors just to survive in academia.The most important
thing in teaching is to remain at heart an artist,Everything
should come out of that.That is what the students want to hear
in any case.I think a lot of people to teach because they want
to be needed.The student teacher feed back loop is insidious.
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